Fraking Germans and their oddball, soft metal, bolts...

[Shaq Diesel]

So, I decided to change the oil in my bike today. Got three bolts out and apparently BMW of LV must of enjoyed using their female torx socket when screwing in the two oddball male torx bolts.

After a bunch of cursing, cutting, more cursing, WD40 spraying, and even more cursing, I have one "formerly known as a torx" bolt that won't come out. Does anyone know of a good bolt penetrating oil or lube has proven itself to free up tight or rusty (in my case tight is the driver since there is no side of rust on this bolt) bolts?

[2Evil4U]

i'd say PB Blaster if it is corroded but since it's not you have a problem. is the bolt such that you might be able to grip the head with a small pipe wrench? otherwise maybe try judicious application of heat?

[Shaq Diesel]

Can't grip with a wrench. Heat might be a viable option.

[scooterhose]

If you can get anything on it at all. i.e. the torx socket etc. This sounds bad but it WILL work. Put the torx bit on the head and strike it several times smartly with a hammer. This will do two things, it will seat the bit a bit better but more importantly will jar loose the bolt. I have done this thousands of time with all sorts of bolts and screws. (Works best on semi stripped Phillips heads.)

If the bolt does not easily come out with the first couple of raps. Don't try too hard, just hit the bit a few more times just a bit harder. Eventually it will come out.

Optimally, you should do this before the head strips out.:respect:

[king4456]

if its cross threaded in its not coming out

[Swampy]

Heat would be my first suggestion.. Especially if you cant get vice grips on it...

[mattc]

If you can get anything on it at all. i.e. the torx socket etc. This sounds bad but it WILL work. Put the torx bit on the head and strike it several times smartly with a hammer. This will do two things, it will seat the bit a bit better but more importantly will jar loose the bolt. I have done this thousands of time with all sorts of bolts and screws. (Works best on semi stripped Phillips heads.)

If the bolt does not easily come out with the first couple of raps. Don't try too hard, just hit the bit a few more times just a bit harder. Eventually it will come out.

Optimally, you should do this before the head strips out.:respect:

+1 Works great for allen bolts too.

Knipex pliers are also a great tool to have. Just ask a few mechanics.

[mcinfantry]

id grab a mapp gas torch, heat the area AROUND the bolt, and take the correct size torz and pop it a couple of times as you turn. if that wont work id drill it and use a punch......

[scooterhose]

Of coarse, you could buy a KLR for the cost of the replacement bolt from BMW.


























:D

[Swampy]

MC Infantry is right... If all else fails a drill bit just smaller than the bolt will work wonderfully... First get a drill about the size of the head and drill it off..
Then very carefully drill the center of the bolt out.. When you drill thru it you should be able to pick the remaining threads out of the grooves.. If you knick the treads you will need to chase them with a tap to clean them up..
It may not be the easiest or the fastest but if all else fails.. It certainly will work...

You should prolly try to replace those bolts with some regular allen heads ..Lowes has a good selection of allen head bolts in std and metric.. You should be able to find one that will replace what you have..

Good luck...

[Britton]

Did you try using harsh language?

[minig0d]

if you are talking about a larger bolt head you can also use a dremel and cut a slot into it for a screwdriver and then just use an impact screwdriver (ie one that you hit with the hammer) and it'll likely come right out... but yes use heat...

If you are referring to a hex headed bolt... try finding a STANDARD (non metric) socket which is the size slightly smaller than the metric socket meant for the bolt (metric's and sae generally alternate in sizes (like the sae would be a half size between the metric sizes)... you can probably hammer it onto the bolt head and then use your ratchet to get it off... another thing you can do with a dremel is cut the stripped bolt head down to the next smallest size and go from there... lubes generally don't help with this b/c even though they "penetrate" there isn't much room to get in to penetrate as that kind of metal isn't very porous and generally if you are talking about something related to oil... with the direction of the bolt gravity will be working AGAINST you...

[Shaq Diesel]

Did you try using harsh language?

Of course, harsh language is always the first thing done when tackling these type of tasks.

To add some more data to this, the bolt itself has (or should I say had) a small head to begin with. Once it started galling it didn't take much to get it to the point where it was a rounded gob of metal mess. The overall diameter is best approximated to be less than a #2 pencil.

It is currently slotted for a flat-head screwdriver and after pounding away at that for a little bit it still wasn't budging. As a matter of fact all I think I was accomplishing was working on hammering off the remaining metal on the bolt head.

I'll probably go out and buy a small butene torch to try to heat up the periphery (always been looking for some weird reason to buy one of those things). If I were a betting man I would have to bet on me most likely having to drill it out. This one should be easy. The last time I have to drill out a bolt it was a wheel stud on a car. Not the most fun of times, especially since I had some relatively crappy tools to work with...

[Ritten]

Let's go back to the main post here......what are you trying to unscrew?? The only screws you should need to take off to change the oil on a GS are for the skid plate. If that's the case, then cut the head off of the screw, undo the rest of them, let the plate fall and then you can use a much bigger open end/box end wrench on the rubber spacer above it. Replacement spacers can be ordered from BMW, although pricey, it's worth not having to go through all of that crap. Another thing that you're going to find with that stock skid plate set up is that anytime you BARELY NICK it, you're going to shear one of those expensive rubber studs anyway, so having a few spares on hand isn't a bad thing.

Twin Headlight Ernie gives you replacement stainless allan bolts for the skid plate so you can do away with those weird male torx things. It might be a good idea to go pickup some while you've got it all apart.

[minig0d]

Of course, harsh language is always the first thing done when tackling these type of tasks.

To add some more data to this, the bolt itself has (or should I say had) a small head to begin with. Once it started galling it didn't take much to get it to the point where it was a rounded gob of metal mess. The overall diameter is best approximated to be less than a #2 pencil.

It is currently slotted for a flat-head screwdriver and after pounding away at that for a little bit it still wasn't budging. As a matter of fact all I think I was accomplishing was working on hammering off the remaining metal on the bolt head.

I'll probably go out and buy a small butene torch to try to heat up the periphery (always been looking for some weird reason to buy one of those things). If I were a betting man I would have to bet on me most likely having to drill it out. This one should be easy. The last time I have to drill out a bolt it was a wheel stud on a car. Not the most fun of times, especially since I had some relatively crappy tools to work with...

Seriously if you have any head at all on it try one of these... handy tools to have for $5...
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=37530

i wouldnt count on any of those bolt extractor sets they sell that are reverse threaded I've snapped a few of those in my day...

as far as torches you can probably heat it sufficiently with a hair dryer if you dont have a torch or heat gun...

[Shaq Diesel]

Let's go back to the main post here......what are you trying to unscrew?? The only screws you should need to take off to change the oil on a GS are for the skid plate. If that's the case, then cut the head off of the screw, undo the rest of them, let the plate fall and then you can use a much bigger open end/box end wrench on the rubber spacer above it. Replacement spacers can be ordered from BMW, although pricey, it's worth not having to go through all of that crap. Another thing that you're going to find with that stock skid plate set up is that anytime you BARELY NICK it, you're going to shear one of those expensive rubber studs anyway, so having a few spares on hand isn't a bad thing.

Twin Headlight Ernie gives you replacement stainless allan bolts for the skid plate so you can do away with those weird male torx things. It might be a good idea to go pickup some while you've got it all apart.

The funny thing about all of this is when I first did on oil change on this bike I told myself "Self, the next time you do an oil change remember to replace those ugly torx bolts". If I did not procrastinate on that thought then and just changed them out at the very first oil change I wouldn't have this issue. But I didn't, and I had every thought of pulling those bolts and taking a trip down to Lowes to get replacements this time before I put everything back together.

Of course Murphy decides to step in and make me pay for my previous planning of this job. In all actuality I probably could have cursed Sunday away and just tackled this whole issue then, but it was too damned beautiful and my dogs really wanted to play.

Who is Twin Headlight Ernie? I doubt I'll put this off so long to be able to wait for mail-ordered bolts to arrive but I want to check out what he has for future endeavours with this bike.

[Shaq Diesel]

Seriously if you have any head at all on it try one of these... handy tools to have for $5...
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=37530

i wouldnt count on any of those bolt extractor sets they sell that are reverse threaded I've snapped a few of those in my day...

as far as torches you can probably heat it sufficiently with a hair dryer if you dont have a torch or heat gun...

Interesting little device. Given the vertical room I have to work with it might not be the best tool for my particular scenario but the next time I stop by HF I'll add this to my list of things to look for.

As far as hair dryers, apparently you forget what type of hair I have... :)

[jason70360]

TwinHeadlightErnie is a guy on ADV that makes/sells skid plates and other hard parts for DS bikes.

I want to get a skid plate from him at some point in the future. I just haven't been able to ride much lately to need one.

I hear Austin could have used one this weekend though!

[I_FLY_LOW]

I have a heat gun, if that'll help...

[jason70360]

Here is a link to a thread with pics of Ernie's skidplates and center stand plates.

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=107165&page=4&highlight=Twin+Headlight+Ernie

[Ritten]

Stu.......just grind that damn head off!!! You'll still have the rest of the stud to grab on to unscrew it from the engine case once the skid plate is off. Run the plate with only three mounting points instead of four.....I did just that for a few months when Heberts screwed up the reinstallation of mine.

Twin Headlight Ernie is the guy who I bought my skid plate from.

[Britton]

Of course, harsh language is always the first thing done when tackling these type of tasks....

But did you do it in German?

:redx2:

[I_FLY_LOW]

like the movie firefox.. instead it's "must think German!"

[Shaq Diesel]

But did you do it in German?

:redx2:

dammit... I have to curse in German? Is that how you get these things to listen to you? I swear to....

Then again, for your case Austin as much as you abuse them I bet you could sing some nice love songs in German (lord knows that's the only way they'll ever let you mount them again...). :D

[Britton]

:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

[wjcook]

I had the same problem a couple of times. There proper tool is a spindle socket. It works better than a 12 pointed socket. After you have stripped or rounded the head of the bolt a handy tool is the easy out for bolts or nuts. It works like a socket but it has teeth or ridges inside and like the easy out that you may be familiar with this works on the head of the bolt. Sears has an over priced set for almost $50.00 but you can get a set at home depot for $20.00. it really works and does not destroy the head of the bolt, its always better to replace the spindle head bolts that are in the braking system but you may get by if you reuse the old bolts, your call new bikes are expensive, new bolts are cheaper........

[ka5ysy]

Try this:

http://www.getgrabit.com/Default.asp?tcode=pi4&tag=google&gclid=CIfZ7rXUhpgCFRKIxwodiknCkA&bhcp=1


A friend of mine has a set of these and says that they work great. If you get the bolt out and the threads are ruined, Helicoil inserts will save the day.


Good luck !

[Zeek]

If you do drill it out, use a reverse cut drill bit. I bought some from Autozone for a bolt that broke off in the differential of my car. While I was drilling it out, it unscrewed with the bit.

[Navaho6]

Use a dremel and carbide bit to create two flat spots opposite of each other so that you can't clamp onto the head with vise grips. PB baster is good but heat and vibration work wonders. I had to use an electric impact wrench last weekend on a stubborn one.

If you ruin the head, grind it down flat and then use a bolt extracter.